What's Your Plan? A Conversation with Erin Buss

Join us on this episode as Amanda Perry Carl chats with Erin Buss, Executive VP of Development and Strategy at Southeast Trust Company in Ocala, Forida.  You will hear some amazing conversations regarding the importance of planning for the future - in regard to estate planning, succession planning, and general financial planning!  

This topic is so critical in the agriculture industry and as you will see when you listen, planning and communication are critical for the future of this industry!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Welcome to the Legal Field Podcast, where we discuss legal and regulatory topics that are of critical importance to the agriculture industry. My name is Amanda Perry Carl, and I am an agricultural lawyer whose family has been farming in Florida since 1823, before Florida even became a state. I have spent almost 20 years as an attorney in the agricultural industry and have made it my mission to ensure that everyone in our incredible industry understands the legal and regulatory issues that we face so that we can keep feeding Florida, America, and the world. So if you're a farmer, rancher, or grower, if you are involved in raising cattle, sheep, poultry, goats, hogs, horses, or other livestock, if you grow fruits, vegetables, or sod, if you are involved with the aquaculture, turf grass, or horticulture industries, if you are fighting the good fight to help our citrus industry survive, or if you just like to eat and you appreciate our ag producers, this podcast is for you. If you are interested in protecting and preserving our agricultural heritage, lands, and way of life, then come join us in the legal field and see what's growing on. Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Legal Field Podcast. Um, as you all know, I am Amanda Perry Carl, and I am so excited to welcome our guest today, a friend from my home county, Aaron Buss. Erin is the Executive Vice President of Development and Strategy at Southeast Trust Company in Ocala, Florida. So, Aaron, welcome to the podcast today. I'm so happy to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Thanks, Amanda. I am very happy to be here as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

So, a fun fact, Aaron's husband and I have actually known each other for many years since back in high school. And as we were just discussing before we started recording the podcast, um, it's crazy, it doesn't seem like it's been that long ago or that we are the ages that we are, but that has been a few years ago, maybe since we were in high school. Um, in addition to being a fellow boy mom, which we're gonna talk a little bit more about later, Erin, you have a very unique career where you get to do a lot to help folks in our beloved agricultural industry. Um we're gonna have a lot more detail later, but can you give us a brief introduction of what you do at Southeast Trust?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Sure. So I get to share what services we can provide to any individual in the state of Florida, uh, in any industry. So Ag obviously has a sweet spot in my heart coming from Marion County and seeing that's a big proponent of economic impact. But we can help any individual. And what we help them with is we help them plan for their future financially. So that can be from an investment management standpoint, making sure that they have made the steps to plan for the future of maybe one day retiring. But then also we help them with their future finances when they're not able to make those decisions on their own. Whether they have become incapacitated and they can't make quite the same decisions that they used to when they had all their faculties, or they have passed away. So we help them navigate a plan, and then most of the time, we can help provide the solution to make that plan come to fruition by being named in what we call a future capacity. So we can be named to help their family with their finances once they pass away. So my job is to tell people that we do that. So I get the joy of meeting up with old friends such as you, Amanda, or going around the community and making sure that people know that this service is available.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

And this is such an incredible service. Um, I saw an article just coincidentally this morning as I was scrolling through some of the ag pages that I follow, and it was an article that I think was a little bit misinformed, but it said that old farmers, and I don't like that term, seasoned farmers, let's call them seasoned farmers. Old farmers are selfish and won't hand things over to their children, and that's a big problem. And and I think that, and you've probably seen this a lot, Aaron, for a lot of people, this isn't the case. It's that a lot of them aren't handing things over either because they're scared, because this has been their life, or because they don't know that services like what you all provide even exist and they haven't taken the time to do this planning. So I think that's why this is so critical. We'll we'll talk about this in a lot more detail. But this succession planning, estate planning, you know, planning for the future is so critical for all businesses, for all folks, but especially for our ag industry and to keep our farmlands in production.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I agree completely. So let's talk a little bit about your background and kind of how you ended up here so our listeners know about you as you're as you're here talking. Can you give us a little bit about your background and how you ended up in your current role?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Of course. So grew up in Ocala, born and raised here, and I went to the University of Florida, received a degree in business management, continue on to receive my master's in business administration, and immediately started in the financial field of commercial lending. So it was my job to see how I could help individuals and businesses grow, whether it was to provide solutions with a loan for real estate, for equipment, for land, but then also help them make sure that their money was moving in the right places at the right timing, whether that meant that they were sending wires to the right people at the right time, or if they were being able to receive payments electronically and provide solutions for them. So 15 years of helping grow businesses in my hometown was fantastic. I transitioned and then started to run and manage a statewide CPA firm. So I worked with 140 bright-minded accountants across the state of Florida and then transitioned back into the financial arena because I missed helping individuals from a financial perspective. So about four years ago, I jumped back into working in the financial industry and where I work now at Southeast Trust. And it's been a great transition because what we do is more of mission work in the sense that we want to make sure that your intentions are followed out as cleanly and clearly as possible, and helping people through some very difficult decisions and conversations, in some ways, being a mediator with some family members, and sometimes a mediator for an individual within themselves, because it's hard for them to answer questions. And so we continue to give them information to help them see how their future can be successful with or without them. So that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

And that's what you mentioned there is so critical. And I think it makes people, especially, you know, as I talked about earlier, this article that was, you know, talking about people not transitioning or having a plan, coming to someone like you, some a place like Southeast Trust, where you kind of do view that relationship very personal and you have um a passion for that. I think that makes people who may not want to sit down and have these conversations feel a lot more comfortable having these conversations because they do feel like they're cared for and that you value the decisions they're having to make and how difficult some of these decisions are. Because these are not fun decisions to have to make sometimes. Right. Right. A lot of these things are are you know are not um fun decisions. And we're gonna dive deeper here in kind of the estate planning side, and then we're gonna talk a little bit more about planning for you know investing in the future while folks are still alive. Um, but one of the things I think people really struggle with in estate planning is we don't like to deal with our own mortality. You know, I think that's sometimes hard. Um, I think it's a little bit easier if you're a believer. I think sometimes it's harder if you're not. But I think whether you're a believer or not, our own mortality is very hard to deal with. Um, and thinking about the people you leave behind. And I think sometimes when people fail to do their estate planning, and I work with this with clients a lot as well, when people fail to deal with their estate planning, they're leaving behind a mess for their loved ones. And so while you may not want to think about it right now, it's so important to make these decisions to leave things behind better. Um, especially when we're talking about agriculture, if you don't leave a good plan behind, you're leaving your loved ones behind with crops in the ground, things that need to be harvested, but things that need to immediately be taken care of. So, can you talk to us a little bit about some of the biggest issues you see in estate planning and then maybe hone in a little bit on ag and you know some of the family-owned operations that you guys see?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Sure. So, you know, your cut your comment about mortality and talking about, you know, next steps, oftentimes I use the analogy of you know, if if people go away on a vacation, they're going to leave behind things that they value in the hands of people they trust. And they typically leave instructions. So along with my three boys, I have two dogs and a cat. And so we, when we do go on vacation, I only leave my dogs and cats with individuals that I know are gonna follow the directions that I leave. And so I trust that person to handle that plan because I'm not there to do it. And I do that because I love them, I care for them, I don't want anything to happen to them while I'm away. So I put that in the hands of someone that I trust. So that's a lighter way of thinking of when I go on my permanent vacation and I am not able to come back and help those things that I love. So an estate plan is a plan for you to have in place when you're no longer there to be able to give those directions. So sometimes talking about it in a little softer sense of okay, if you were to go on vacation, what do you want to have happen? And be able to comment on the next steps from there. And in regards to one of the biggest things with estate plans that I think anybody needs to make sure that they address is silence. A lot of people will decide to not have a conversation with anybody. No plan is not okay. If you don't have a plan, the state has one already dictated for you. Many times the state's plan is not going to align with what your true wishes are. So by you not making a plan, you have actually hindered the success of what you've worked so hard for to be able to transition into the next steps for your family and their success. So the biggest problem I see is silence, where you don't talk to your family about your intentions, and then the family doesn't talk to you either. So I'm gonna give you an example. Let's say there's been uh a farming operation that has been in the family now, uh it's on its third generation, and the fourth generation, they have four children, and none of them want to carry on the legacy because of several reasons. It happens, and that original now owner may not understand, they may not understand that why won't one of my children want to carry this on, and if they don't have that honest conversation and saying, Mom, dad, I I've decided to go in the field of medicine, I've decided to go in the field of mission work, I would like to be an engineer, mom and dad, I want to be a teacher, which is a very noble profession. Uh we're not gonna be here. So that conversation needs to happen, as well as the conversation of okay, maybe one of those four does want to step up and take care of the farm going forward. What does that mean for the other three when it comes to inheritance and the value and if you wanted to split things equally? So the first step is an honest conversation with your family to see if they want to carry on the family business.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

And that is that is so critical. I love your analogy about going on vacation and leaving a plan behind because I think that makes it so real to people. Um, and like you said, a little more lighthearted as well. Um, those conversations are so important because if you're if you're not talking about um, you know, what your future plans are, or to your point about if you've got, say, four children and and one wants to continue with the farm, well then how do you manage the inheritance for the rest? And those are things that you guys can all that you guys can help with at Southeast Trust, correct?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yes. So so what we would do is we start the conversation. We help break the ice basically and say, okay, now's the time to actually put the words out in the world and and let's let's answer some questions that may be difficult to start. But Amanda, as people start to talk about it and realize this isn't as painful as I thought it was gonna be, they they start to open up and and soften up in regards to options. And so it's really important to start the conversation and and we pride ourselves at Southeast Trust to help people start to think and talk to one another. Oftentimes we'll have one one individual come in and they they don't know where to start. And we said you started the perfect place. We can get the conversation going. And sometimes it's easier to talk to us than an attorney. Amanda, you are so kind and easy to talk to. That's not always the case. Some attorneys are a bit uh more abrasive and maybe have a vocabulary that can be difficult to understand at Southeast Trust. We we help make sure people understand the purpose of an estate plan and some of the critical questions that they should have ready to be answered prior to meeting with an attorney. So we can help formulate some skeleton of an estate plan so that that individual and hopefully their spouse, if they're ready to have that conversation together, can then meet with a knowledgeable partner such as you, an attorney who can write the documents. So at Southeast Trust, we do not write documents, however, we have great partners in the attorney world that handle estate plans and do so with diligence. So, Amanda, you've written estate plans. You know that every family has a different need and every plan is different. So it's really important that you work with an attorney who understands how to write a very specific estate planning document for your situation. I can tell you that Chat GPT is not a good option. Using AI for your legal documents in this situation, it is not a good option. It's critical that you talk to a human being who's experienced with Florida law and ag law and estate planning, which all of those are very difficult to find, except Amanda, here you are. Um find it in you. But so we help to formulate that skeleton, be able to of thoughts so that you can then go to your professional attorney to be able to draft a document. And after that point, we can help you interpret it because there is legal language that are in estate plans that sometimes are difficult to interpret. So oftentimes our clients will bring it back to us and said, okay, what does this really mean? And so we can take a document, help interpret it, and say, this is what's going to happen based off the words on this piece of paper. Is that your intention? So that's how we can help the conversation start, but we also can help down the line as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

And that's fantastic because, you know, I think one of the cool things about agriculture and all small businesses, but it's like a big family, you know, sometimes it makes it a lot easier to talk to someone like you, someone at Southeast Trust, to have those initial conversations to get those thoughts and intentions down and get a plan in place because it, you know, does feel comfortable to your point about attorneys. Yes, a lot of attorneys are very cold and down to business, and it's not that um familial feeling, which is why I like doing agricultural law because our industry does have that feeling of family, the good, the bad, and the ugly, just like real family. Um, so you know, I think that's really important for folks to come and get that kind of locked down because, like you said, you've got to start that conversation. And once it starts to flow, um, they may have other ideas pop up too, but they may come in having no idea when they come to you guys of what's even possible or what options, you know, even are out there. And being able to open up that conversation with you guys is just so critically important. And from my perspective, too, as someone who does a lot of um fighting to preserve some of our agricultural lands, this estate planning helps to do that as well. Um, it helps to preserve some of these lands for the next generation of um farmers within the family or perhaps outside of the family. So I think that's such a critical thing for our state in general. And the things that you guys do are awesome.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Great. I agree. And it's um that planning in general is something that sometimes you need uh a little guide. You need someone to say, have you thought of this? Maybe consider this. Not all of our advice needs to be taken, right? It's a personal decision. But if you didn't know it was an option, now you do, and maybe you can make a better decision because of it. A lot of documentation that is crafted in an estate plan is focused on finances. So that could be a power of attorney, a will, andor a trust, but a lot of things are also focused on a health standard as well. So when you're planning for your estate plan, not only think of the financial decisions that need to be made for your family's success, you also need to think about decisions related to your health and who's going to care for you when you can't make those decisions on your own. So we do talk a lot about the money part of an estate plan, the monetary, which is important, but so is the decision making associated with your care for your health.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

And that's another place where it is so important to do that because it helps the family, your family there to not have to guess on certain decision-making um items, you know, whether it's a healthcare surrogate form or whether it's uh, you know, a living will, you're you're providing more guidance to your loved ones as to what your wishes are. And so I think that leaves them in you know in a better spot as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Absolutely. So that's estate planning there, you know, for when someone passes away. Let's talk a little bit about investments planning for the future, the duration of your clients' lives. Um, you know, I think a lot of times in agriculture, we see a lot of you, and you guys probably see a lot of your clients maybe land rich and cash poor. They may not have a 401k because they are a family-run farm, they may not have retirement investments. So when they come to you guys, you know, let's talk a little bit about some of the options you guys can present to them and helping them craft this plan for their future and maybe allowing them to retire at some point. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

If they want to. Not everybody wants to retire if they want to. So, you know, when you look at someone that is heavily invested in land, in in the agriculture industry, you I started to use an ag pun, but you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket in investment or in agriculture. So you wouldn't plant all the same type of crop necessarily at the same time. Some people do and have great success, but others diversify or they rotate different crops, or they have livestock and crops to diversify their income, to kind of make that risk balance out. And the same thing is suggested when you have other investments. So when you have investments, it's really important to be diversified. Your land as a producer is very valuable for your operation. So it's really important that if that's part of the success of your business and your livelihood, that you keep it intact. So there are ways that you can use other resources to expose more liquidity if you don't have that liquidity. But when it comes to investments, it's really important for you to think of diversifying. So if you have a lot of land and you think at some point you do want to transition to retirement, my my thought would be that you would diversify in other types of investments if you have the liquidity to do it. So if you do have the liquidity to do it, you probably would want to also balance that land-rich portfolio with municipal bonds, which are low, low risk, short-term bonds that are typically backed by the federal government. And then also you can dabble in some dividend-paying stocks. So that would give you a more diversified portfolio, the percentage of which would be dependent again on your risk tolerance. So you would have different buckets to kind of separate your idea of investments. You would have the operating business, they would have land, equipment, livestock, and cash. You would have long-term investments that would also have stocks and bonds, but then you'd have some short-term liquidity. So your cash reserves or, you know, a CD or just a short-term fixed income instrument. So you really have to diversify your investments over the time horizon that you have. The sooner you can diversify, the better for your options to retire at the time in which you choose. So there are ways to look at slowly diversifying a portfolio. That land-rich investment, we'd have to really investigate what your options are for each individual case to see what we could do to help pull liquidity from that as it would work for your operation.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And, you know, this type of conversation investment also, you know, I keep going back to this, but I think this is a huge, a huge thing within our industry, also goes to, again, helping the next generation to be able to come in and take over operations. You know, if, like you said, some people don't want to retire and, you know, want to be busy and working on the farm on the ranches, you know, until they are unable to anymore. But it's important for these, for there to be some thought about future investments and perhaps being able to retire so the next generation can come in and have that time to be able to have some legitimate succession planning and running the business and not just be thrown into it one day without that level of succession planning needed to be successful. Um, you know, there's, you know, I mentioned earlier, sometimes you're just thrown into things and there's crops that need to need to be harvested. There's things that need immediate attention that just can't be put on the back burner while things are worked through. So this, much like estate planning, um, is so critical for the continuity of some of our farm and ranch lands and these family farms to stay in business. Um, you know, it's it's really very challenging, I think, these days to have a third, fourth, fifth generation family business of any type, but especially agriculture. So when you see ones that are successful, you want to continue to pass that on to more generations.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Absolutely. Succession planning is unique in every industry, but industry knowledge is hard to pass on in an instant, particularly in the agriculture industry, because of the seasonality and the different knowledge that's needed in each part of the production process. Whether it's livestock, whether it's produce, whatever it may be, you have different seasons literally within the process, some of which could take years to get through from start to finish. So having a succession plan and starting early so that you can transition that wisdom in the appropriate time so that you can have the confidence that you are making sure the next person to run this business has the knowledge they need. So again, communication, making sure you know that these individuals really want to take on this step. Take the time to teach them, listen for opportunities for change because that's something else that we often find with succession. Things are done the right way sometimes, and they need to stay that way. However, there may be new knowledge that can be joined with the old way of doing something to create perpetual great change. And take the time to ask questions about sincerity. You know, sometimes people will get in it and then they realize this is not what I can do for the next 40 years. So be honest on both sides of getting someone in to run it andor to be able to step away.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

These are not easy conversations to have, but I'm so glad you guys have them with people. Before we get to some of our end questions here in the podcast, I want to ask if you could tell our listeners if they want to come speak to you guys, what is the best way to contact you if they want to set up a meeting to talk?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So, Southeast Trust is available all the ways that you would like to communicate with us. So our website, Southeast Trust.com, easy way for you to see all the faces of the individuals that are here on our team to be able to communicate with you. Call us. We do not have a 1-800 number and we pride ourselves on that. Our phone number is 352-291-5999. Yes, that sounds very much like a commercial with that type of phone number. But we have a live person that answers the phone and we pride ourselves on being available to have these conversations in person, on the phone, starting via email if that's best. You can email me at ebus at southeasttrust.com or you can um connect with an attorney and see if we can meet with that attorney with you. Sometimes we have joint meetings together. But when it comes to starting the conversation, we are happy to start in any way that's comfortable for you. We come to homes, we have individuals that come to us. We often will meet um at businesses. So it depends on what the person is comfortable with, and we're happy to start in any fashion that just helps get your one step forward to the next opportunity for creating a plan.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

And you guys have so many combined years of institutional knowledge within, especially the ag industry and within Marion County as well. Um, with the folks that you guys have working there, there's so much so many combined years of knowledge and experience in this industry. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yes, our team is very varied in the sense of our our background of the knowledge we have, whether it's thoroughbred, cattle, crop. We have quite a quite a bit of um knowledge base, but we also have the knowledge base for business operations. Um, and it's been fun for us to learn more about different industries based off of our clientele.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

I love this. I love it so much. Now, I always like to end my podcast with some fun personal questions with our guests. So, Aaron, could you tell our listeners some of the things you like to do for fun outside of work?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yes. So, Amanda, as you mentioned, we're boy moms. I have three boys. My my favorite thing to do is to support them with their loves. So they have games, they have performances, they have practices. I like to be there. I like to be present to cheer them on. I may not be the person with the cowbell, but I do cheer pretty loud. But um, really, really supporting my children and doing and what they love is is what I love to do outside of work. But in addition to that, I make sourdough. So I started making sourdough bread almost two years ago, and I really love eating it too, and so do the boys. So I've I've experimented with different things that you can put in sourdough to make it taste differently, whether it's sweet or savory. And my boys have picked up on it and they could probably do it from start to finish, but it tends to be my baby, my science experiment, and I make sourdough maybe three or four loaves a week. And because I love eating sourdough, I have to work out a lot. So I do um I do work out, I run yoga, Pilates, and um, in the meantime, I help people plan for their future.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

You're speaking my language here with the sourdough too. I may have to get some starter at some point. Now, what's your favorite place in Florida to take those boys of yours and your whole family?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

We love to take our boys anywhere there's water to play in or on. So whether it be kayaking or stand-up paddle boarding on one of our beautiful rivers in Marion County, so Silver Springs, or go to any other springs, we love to inshore fish, we love to go scalloping, um, tubing on a lake, anything we can do to be outside enjoying the water associated with our beautiful Florida and soak up that vitamin D.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

I love that. We have a beautiful state with so many places to go and enjoy outdoors and nature. So that is wonderful. And now my final question that goes back to being a boy mom. What's your favorite part of being a boy mom? And what is the wildest part of being a boy mom? Because there's a lot of those. There's a whole lot of those.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

There are a whole lot of those, and that's why it's awesome. I love being a boy mom. There's so many favorites. You know, I love watching them develop their faith and become gentlemen. And a kudos goes to my husband of almost 22 years, who he's a great example. So watching them grow, I love each season because in that moment they have become more and more um filled with faith and seeing how they they like to help other kids and volunteer. So that's probably my favorite part about being a boy mom. But for the wildest, so I mentioned that I go to all their games and performances, and sometimes they're in different parts of the state on the same day, and so I can tell you we we travel quite a bit for them, but when we are home, it is odd, but these three high school boys will all of a sudden just decide that they want to pick me up, and they will pick me up all the time and just carry me to a different part of the house, and I just let it happen because I think it's funny, and it usually ends up with a tickle fight or wrestling, and somehow I tiptoe away, and then they're all having a good time, and I just watch that happen. So I'd say the fact that all three of my boys individually will pick me up at random and and take me to the couch or take me to the other room and just put me down. I just let it happen.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

It's just I love that so much, and enjoy those things while they're still young and home and not grown, right? Enjoy those moments while we can. Amen. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Erin. Is there anything else you would like to add um to the podcast for our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 34:37

So at Southeast Trust, we operate as a fiduciary, which means we are legally and ethically obligated to act in our client's best interest at all times. So our compensation is not fee-based, it's commission driven. So we're not incentivized to sell products. Instead, our success is aligned with our client's success. When they do well financially, we do well financially.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Well, Erin, thank you so much for being with us today on the podcast. I'm so excited for what you could share with our listeners. Um, and thank you for all of what you're doing for our businesses and ag businesses in the state of Florida.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Amanda, this has been a pleasure. Thank you for asking me to be here and to tell about how we like to help families and their traditions continue. And if we can be part of that, we're we think it's a blessing. So thanks for what you do, and I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Legal Field Podcast. For more content, please visit the Facebook page of Florida Ag Law or go to FloridaAglaw.com and join us next time on the Legal Field Podcast to see what's growing on it.